About Me

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Deep South, United States
Consultant, inventor, mentor, chess coach,. Current projects involve No Till Farming and staving off blindness due to cataracts among other projects. I also do confidential ghost writing (without taking any published credit. My current blindness makes me put this on hold for a while. I should have one eye working again in about four months. Fact, fiction, all subjects considered. I have heard My daughter Jennifer is alive. I would love it if she were to contact me here. I understand she would like to know me. I have sent a message by circuitous route. I can only hope. My posted Email works as well. We have four decades to catch up on.
EUREKA IDEAS UNLIMITED

This blog has been up for more than a year. The intent was to generate dialogues about serious problems and ideas. It has been almost exclusively a monologue. I have not been looking for large numbers of participants.

I would be quite happy with a few dozen imaginative, creative, thoughtful and inventive people who wish to address serious problems and issues. If anyone has any ideas about how to attract such a talented group I will certainly pay attention. I am not as computer conversant as I would wish. Anyone who could help in this regard would find me receptive to sharing my skills in other areas.

Saturday, December 22, 2007

Dental Horror Stories

In the guise of news, this was one of the cover features that first popped up on Internet Explorer today. We see a picture of a perfectly reasonable looking fellow of perhaps sixty. It's only purpose, as far as I can tell is to get the viewer to go to AOL Business and Finance. But we don't know it yet. It is labeled Lifestyle, and we get the notion that there might be some real information in there somewhere. No such luck. This is all there is to the story.

Cheapest Ex I Know
Submitted by: LadyCroibhriste

I happened to notice when I was visiting my ex-mother-in-law that it appeared my ex-husband was wearing some sort of dental thing in his mouth. I asked my her and she said no ... it was Super Glue. His top teeth had so many pinhole cavities, chips and cracks that he kept "resurfacing" his top teeth until it built up. It looked like one of those teeth protectors that kids wear when they play football except it tobacco-brown. Reason no. 1758 why I'm not married to that man.

Okay, so now we have it. Now, anyone who is divorced is entitled to have, and even voice their perspectives on the trauma of the experience. It can even be said to be a part of the healing process. Since I have been divorced for a very long time, the sensitive aspects of it all are really only a distant memory. This is sort of a public service for those who think of marriage as a permanent bonding, as I did. For the record, my first marriage lasted a decade.

Even so, once in a while, one hears a bit of news that is startling almost to the point of boggling the mind. The ex of ancient history, with whom the only thing I have in common, as far as I can tell, is two adult boys now reaching middle age, and in whom I have ordinate pride. The ex would be sixty some odd years old. I shall not editorialize here. She is the mother of my sons. I shall simply state what I heard, that she was preparing to spend about $50.000 to get a mouthfull of implanted teeth. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that. I am told that one can get an entire set of dentures for something like a thousand or so. Okay I won't pursue that line of thinking further.

Now as it happens, I don't go to the dentist much, and I am more and more glad that my contact with dentists in general has been kept to a minimum. I will soon be much more explicit about why, in my dialogue-essays called Biting the Dentist in the General Health section of a Health oriented forum. Actually, I should do that now, since I have become less and less thrilled about my participation there. But that is another story.

A little of this material is already published here under the same title Biting the Dentist, something of a horror story, but here are some more of the relevant details, which support my contention that we are under the control of a medical system which plunders us to the point of ruin, in the name of good health, which more often than not does not result from the procedures we have been subjected to. So here is the series in which I turn my attention to super glue as a dental reconstructive material. Here are my comments on the thread so far. I have condensed it, cutting repetitions for those who apparently can't read with comprehension.

Cavities can be serious problems. Their impact goes well beyond the hole in the enamel and the pain that ultimately results when the tooth nerve suffers damage. Cavities can be on exposed portions of the tooth or under bridges or beneath the gum line. I am not concerning myself here with simple, easy to reach cavities. Just get the cavity filled and brush and floss more to reduce future problems. The economic consequences of simple cavities are a minor unpleasantness, but bearable.

My current problem, which extends over many years, apparently can not be reached by conventional methods of dentistry without first destroying the entire bridge (according to the dentist). I question that. I'm not going to get on a rant here. But in this case, I have spent almost $300 (a discount dental program, X-ray, and a minor (15 second) limited exam consisting of touching the offending tooth with a latex covered finger. Now I need to come up with $1100 and change (half) for work to commence, and another like amount, two weeks later. So, about $2500 total.

Deep in the throes of pain, I was considering doing it. But even if I did, it would just be the beginning . Although I explicitly invited the dentist to consider various options, including possibly experimental ones, he came back with one single option; the replacement of the offending tooth with a titanium post and a new bridge. But the bridge is being held by TWO anchoring teeth. What the dentist suggested did nothing to address the very real likelihood that soon, or perhaps four or five years downstream, this second tooth would have to be replaced, requiring the same sort of procedure (and another two and a half grand). Whereas to replace both post teeth with titanium now might cost three grand now, but might last me twenty or thirty years or more. The dentist did not mention this option.

The following is experimental. I'm doing it for myself. I am finding it effective so far. It may have problems I don't see. ANY dentist, including mine, is invited to post any dissent or other objection to what I am doing to attempt to stave off the work that has been proposed as my only option.

One step which I might employ may be technically illegal. I would not knowingly advise anyone to break the law. It is probably not legal to use any antibiotic for any purpose other than that for which it is prescribed. It is probably not legal to retain any remainder of an antibiotic for use after the expiration date. It is certainly not legal to use anyone else's prescription. So I explicitly do NOT advise anyone to open any such antibiotic capsule and pour a bit of it into a spoon. I do NOT advise anyone to dampen a cotton swab, coat it with some of the hypothetical antibiotic and apply it to the affected cavity itself if possible, or apply it to the gumline area of the effected tooth.So after you have NOT done this, press gently up and down on the tooth repeatedly so that the imaginary and unspecified antibiotic will have a chance to work its way slowly down under the gum, ultimately getting down to the diseased pocket of periodontal disease where the bacteria are munching on the tooth and nerve.

Now, I have (NOT) done this perhaps two or three times a day. And of course, before I didn't do this, I did clean my teeth, and floss, and I even got under the bridge with one of those very useful tiny conical brushes designed to clean under permanent dental appliances. You might ask "How do you know that the antibiotic gets way down into the area where it is needed to fight the infection?" Simple. The bacteria that is down in there got down in there. The bacteria did not spontaneously appear by immaculate conception. A whole zoo of bacteria are all swimming around in the saliva. When you chew, the subtle imperceptible movement of the tooth in its socket eventually allows the bacteria-laden saliva to get down to the site of the damage to continue the destruction.

So, after we have not done this part of the procedure, we can proceed to the part of the procedure involving hydrogen peroxide. It is legal to wash your mouth out with hydrogen peroxide. This oxidant is not good for you or your intestinal tract. You do not want to be sloshing around a whole mouthful of hydrogen peroxide in your mouth. You want to work very hard to minimize even the traces that ultimately go down your throat. So you apply it with a cotton swab only at the gum line of the teeth you want to treat, squish the teeth up and down for a few minutes, getting that peroxided saliva mix down to the deep infected areas. Now after doing this for a while, without squishing your teeth any more, you rinse the mouth several times with clear water to clear out the hydrogen peroxide in the rest of the mouth that would otherwise wind up going down your throat and have to be processed and broken down by your body. Do you do this right before you go to a banquet? No. You do it when you are not planning on eating for several hours. Do you drink soda pop or other beverages high in sugar? No. You do it when you intend only to drink water with some lemon or lime juice (but no sugar) or dry wine or (black) coffee or very Hard Cider or tea without sugar. You do it when you do not intend to snack for a considerable time on snack foods of any kind which contain carbohydrates. This procedure is not going to work for continuous snackers. It will, if I am any example, work well for those who eat one, two or three meals a day, who do this immediately after each feeding.

(Someone asked if I intended to find a new dentist.)

Aloha, the truth is, I don't know. It is very unlikely that this particular dentist will get the work. I do believe that it would be possible to salvage the existing bridge. That option was not presented. The removal of both teeth acting as posts might have been required, but the additional charge for a second implanted titanium post would have compensated the merchant handsomely for his efforts.

The straws that broke the camels back in this case were the fifteen-second minor exam, and the failure to provide a refill of pain medication it a timely way. These two clues suggested that this particular person's main interest was pecuniary. I do not believe he is an isolated example in his industry. But neither do I believe that most dentists should be painted with this same brush. Just many.

I have already gotten seven additional years out of this bridge after another dentist said it was on it's last legs. This other dentist also referred me to an oral surgeon for a full-mouth of surgical gum-stripping, ("or I would be losing all my teeth"). I did not elect to go to the oral surgeon. This dentist also requested that he be allowed to pull two molars "which were not doing me any good," just because he was extracting another tooth near the two molars. These two molars are still functioning all these years later, without trouble.

Ultimately, this dentist was explicitly fired and I have expressed my opinion of him several hundred times. But I really have no clue how long I can make this tooth work. The method I am using, which I have outlined in this thread, has evolved considerably in the past seven years, both in detail and in frequency of use. Only time will tell.
It has now been slightly more than three months since my one visit to this dentist. During that visit I received no treatment what-so-ever. Just a small quantity of pain pills (a few days supply). Although I made them last for over two weeks, the dentist fought me on the renewal of the perscription. It was his stated perspective that it would do me no good to delay the "inevitable" extremely lucrative repair work. As time goes on I grow angrier with this seeming predator. I am more and more inclined to determine how often dentists actually DO remove bridges such as mine intact and return it to its position in the mouth rather than destroying and replacing it. His representation that this could not be done may be entirely fraudulent. If so, he does not serve his profession any better than he served his patient and he deserves to be exposed and punished. We need to keep the healing professions honest if we can.

(Answers to several questions. This thread has recieved about 4000 views so far.)

These are the things that formed my resolve to attempt to find an alternative to the ministrations of this rapacious individual. So what came out of it? New knowledge. I never would have been moved to devise new ways to help myself, had this dentist not abused his power over me. I thought I had reached the limit. I had already made this bridge work for seven years since the previous scoundrel. This new dentist really did have me over a barrel. I was convinced at the time that there was no hope of staving off the work. What I was NOT convinced about was that this new plan of what must be done was the sole option available. I specifically asked him to present all options, even including those which might not be standard practice. If I am correct, this fellow is a criminal preying on people who can't defend themselves. I doubt that he can be stopped. He has the required license to do it. The other one from seven or eight years ago has built himself a fancy new office and he clearly prospers in spite of my word of mouth costing him perhaps a few dozen customers. But I had several visits with him. His "mistakes" were made over an extended period of time and were made with greater care. I am pleased now that although I fired him, I did it without venom or rancor or even sarcasm. I simply said "Your services are no longer required." This one deserves more than that, but I don't yet know exactly what.As to pain. When I went to the dentist, I could not put the slightest pressure on that bridge. I could not have chewed a stewed prune. I just finished GNAWING on a big slab of beef jerky made by my own efforts. (Ichabod can not even be in the same room when I start slicing beef.) No pain. I am now not thinking of staving things off for days or weeks. It is now back to months or years perhaps. I believe your dentist is right in what he says about alcoholic beverages being of some benefit to the oral environment. I don't know if he has stated it with enough precision though. I am sure he doesn't intend for you to frequently slosh straight Ronrico 151 around your mouth. This is about 3/4 straight pure alcohol. 80 proof is only 4/10 pure alcohol. I feel sure this is what your dentist had in mind. 151 or PGA (196) are much too strong for the oral environment. And even with 80 proof, a scant teaspoon once or twice a day would be sufficient. For a comparison, many mouthwashes are about 50 proof. I would also advise that you only do this immediately after brushing and flossing well. Make sure you clean up the tongue as well. Easy to forget, but very worthwhile. If you show this to your dentist, I anticipate he will revise and extend his remarks. While he is at it, he may even review my other remarks to determine if I am off the mark in any particular. I would welcome his input.The pain I had when I went to this dentist incorporated the right ear. It has not returned. Yet.


It is worthy of note that it has been half a year since I saw the dentist, and that I was not treated in any way. The visit was diagnostic. Other than giving the estimate (more than two thousand dollars) the dentist did nothing whatsoever. In the intervening time, applying my own methods, the pain, which was substantial, has entirely disappeared.

The underlying infection has entirely disappeared. And more than two grand of my money has NOT disappeared. (I am about $300 lighter due to this dental incident. No actual repair of any sort was done.) I can grit my teeth now. I know that because when I think of this dentist, that is what I do.


It has now been a little more than half a year since my little experiment that has allowed me to keep more than two thousand dollars of my money in my pocket rather than put it in my dentists pocket for a half days work. A few weeks ago I reviewed my progress. What I still wanted to know was, exactly how much of what I was doing was really necessary to the procedure?

As an example, how regularly did the topical antibiotic need to be used? How small an amount of H2O2 would suffice to keep the infection totally in remission? How little alcohol would satisfactorily do the job? Each of these things has some downside, so it was important to find the minimums which would get the job done.

There was also some small possibility that the infected nerve had actually had the time to fully heal. My guess was that this was not very likely. Of course the way to test this is just to withdraw the treatment(s) selectively and see what happens.

The topical application of the antibiotics were the least regularly used portion of the program. When the original crisis was over, I was only applying a drop or two of liquid multi-component broad-spectrum antibiotic to the affected post tooth, or a few mg of specific single antibiotic powder.

The alcohol was applied three times a week in the routine.And the H2O2 (3%) was applied in very small amounts by cotton swab or a very tiny conical brush designed to get under a permanently affixed bridge.I suspended these treatments and just brushed and flossed normally after each meal. At the end of four days, the infection was returning. Pain which had pretty entirely abated for about five months was beginning to return. When it reached about 20% of what it had been at its' worst, I started the treatments again.

It was very clear that in another week or less I would have a full-blown emergency.It took me about another week to get rid of the problem. Now I have a much clearer idea of just what level of treatment is required to get the job done. I can only wonder why, of the many thousands of dentists practicing, to my knowledge, no one is using such a program to bring relief to their patients that costs only pennies instead of thousands of dollars. We can't really expect them to take such a big slice out of their expected income, can we?

If you happen to be a dentist who takes exception to my remarks, I renew my invitation to stop lurking and show me the error of my ways, either here on this forum or on my blog. I promise to play nice.

It has now been SEVEN months since the diagnosis by this dentist/merchant/conman/crook. (For details, just go to the beginning of this thread and read until you get caught up.) My current regime has resolved down to; brushing and flossing after dining, followed by the application of a single cotton swab worth of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide, a total volume of perhaps four drops. That is to say, the more aggressive steps I originally used do not appear to be necessary on any sort of regular basis.

Actually, if I were not involved in a pitched battle in California involving several enforcement agencies and private companies and various private individuals and conspirators not fully identified due to negligence and/or design, I would already be seeking an official review of this dentist. As to the California matter, I doubt that it has broken the surface of public awareness yet. I expect that some of my good friends who have the skills, and who like to occasionally root around on the Internet to see what I am up to, will let me know by private message when the ripples I am currently making become bigger waves, detectable by those with more Internet savvy than I.

I only regret that, because I am busy, this particular dentist is free to continue to prey upon an unsuspecting public for some time into the future. But the longer I go without the costly emergency repairs he ordered, the worse his advice is demonstrated to be. Eventually, it should be obvious even to a State Dental Review Board.

I want to emphasize that I do not want to tar and feather the profession of dentistry. Certainly the state of people's mouths today is far better than it was a generation or two ago. And I know with certainty that there are wonderful, ethical, hard working conscientious dentists out there because I stumbled across one a number of years ago. I was so delighted with him that I never miss any opportunity to reccomend him to the people in his area. For the record, Anthropositor has the highest esteem for Don Simmons, dentist par excellence, an exemplary human being, accessible to ideas which differ from his own, and a credit to his profession and his species.

And certainly, if he was a member of the discount dental program to which I ill-advisedly subscribed, he would have been my ONLY choice as a dental service provider.The dentist whose actions I deplore and whose services I would not use again CONTRASTS in every important particular with Don Simmons. The dentist who is the central subject of this thread has a last name which begins with the letter K, who operates more than one location. And since I don't want any other dentist who has a last name beginning with K to be misidentified, I will even say that the second letter in his last name is not a vowel and can be found in the first ten letters of the alphabet.

I specifically and pointedly asked him to give me all the various options available to me, even if they were not mainstream ideas. He gave one single option only. I am not a dentist and I can think of several mainstream options. The methods I have used in all this intervening time are not mainstream, but devised empirically by myself in response to an emergency. It is a surprise to me that they have worked so well, for so long a time. This dentist provided me with no useful service whatsoever. He did not even detail what supported his proposed repair rationale, based on an exam which was beyond brief. It was virtually instantaneous. The touch of a single latex covered finger and a glance at a bite-wing X-ray. I spent more time writing the check to pay him than he spent on my mouth. No sense rehashing these details. They are all at the beginning of this thread.

I would prefer never to have met this dentist. Before all this is over, perhaps he will feel the same about me. But I certainly look forward to any insights your dentists might have for me and I thank you for your interest.

New news with regard to the bridge damage which started this thread over a year ago. The initial details are all at the top of the thread.

About ten days ago I bit into a hard pretzel. Got a sharp stabbing pain in the front post tooth of the bridge, the one that the dentist was not planning to do any real work on. Then over the rest of the day there were perhaps another half dozen incidents. This differed considerably from the original pain, which was not intermittant, not stabbing and continuous, and varied directly proportionally to the amount of pressure applied to the back portion of the bridge, affected by the back tooth.This recent event seemed to involve the other tooth to which the bridge was attached. The front tooth. A tooth which was never mentioned by the dentist and which was not involved in his $2200+ planned repair.

Since there is such a thing as referred pain, that is pain that seems to emanate from a point other than where it actually occurred, I cannot say with absolute certainty that the whole problem is with the front tooth.I could not replicate the pain by manipulating the direction of pressure applied to the bridge. But periodically during the next few days, it would recur while I was chewing something challenging.I had not previously directly treated that front anchor tooth to the bridge since I had not been informed that there might be a problem with it.

It got, at most, only a residual fraction of the treatments which I applied to the back post tooth. The dentist had been prepared only to destroy the bridge (not salvage it), pull the back tooth, replace it with a titanium post, and create an entirely new bridge which would continue to use that front tooth as the other anchor. It strikes me that if I had accepted his diagnosis and his plan of repair, I could be in exactly the same position now, a bit more than a year later, and potentially pour another couple of grand down a rathole.

In any case, I began intensively treating the front tooth, using the same methods I had originally applied to the back tooth, plus two new and very interesting experimental modalities. The pains which were happenning with some frequency while chewing, have not recurred in the past three days at all. A good sign.I have, however, developed an extreme superstition about being treated by a dentist whose name begins with the letters Kh. Perhaps the single bite-wing X-ray he took did not include the front tooth. I do not know since he never showed me the X-ray. I do not know if he is a crook, a fool, or just occasionally incompetent, or a combination of these things, but there are plenty of impediments to finding out. I do not have any confidence that there is a dental board of review which would take any interest in investigating the matter.



It's been about three weeks since the trouble with the front anchor tooth in the bridge. The pain was intense and stabbing but only occurred transiently once in a while when I bit something wrong.

This was quite different than the ongoing pain of the rear tooth thirteen or fourteen months ago, which was more steady and increased greatly with every pressure applied to the tooth. I favored the bridge when I ate for a period of weeks. On the second tooth, the stabbing pain seemed to abate maybe 90% in a week or so. Then in the following week I got a few signals that the tooth would zap me again if I wasn't careful. Then in this past few days, there have been no indicators of problems.

I hardly used any topical antibiotic after the first week. The central part of the treatment was just an H2O2 swab right after I cleansed the mouth after eating. Aside from the recent pains in the tooth, there have been no other signs of periodontal disease at all. No halitosis. No bleeding gums ever, for years. The referral to an oral surgeon more than ten years ago, that I never listened to? So much for that nonsense.

I have a lot of curiosity about what is happenning with the front post tooth. The major sharp stabbing pain that I had for some days every once in a while has not returned, but I still get a small indicator of it, maybe 1/20 of the pain might happen every couple of days if I'm gnawing on something hard.It also occurred to me that the occasional indicator might be occurring because the bridge is solidly bonded to that tooth and has no give to it, no shock absorbtion as it were.Another factor here is that the dentist said the bridge could not be removed without destroying it. He was quite clear and unequivocal in this assessment. The bridge could not be reused.

So if I take it off intact, what does that say about Dr. Kh-----?Well, I guess I'll go remove some teeth. Always fun to do some real research. I'm hoping to get the bridge off without pulling or weakening the post teeth too much.Uh, I think I should say something here about maybe you shouldn't try this sort of thing without a pretty good grounding in anatomy. I anticipate a certain amount of... unpleasantness.


Actually, even the transient pains of the front post tooth have disappeared. Trouble is if I leave those two post teeth in their current unreinforced, unsealed condition, one or both are just going to break off. For that matter, the breakage is likely to happen anyway eventually. Probably sooner than later. Probably both posts. Without both anchors the bridge can't chew.But for now, I'm chewing. Not gnawing. Just chewing. If the chewing fails, that's an opportunity to figure out how to grow a strong stalagmite on whatever fragment of tooth may remain. Let me see. I want to avoid drilling and tapping and putting in a screw. Even though that would be about as strong as the jawbone. I know! I'll experiment with the stalactite that I talk about over on Broken Fang. Making it very strong before it breaks laterally will be very helpful whatever the ultimate status of the bridge on the lower jaw.

Okay, that's enough for now. I will get into some of the details of how to use super glue to do dental repairs next time. If yu are in a hurry, you can go over to the other forum and read the thread Broken Fang.











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